Taxpayer group lies

I haven’t seen the flier that town officials are so upset about, but it’s yet another indication that we can’t trust what the West Hartford Taxpayers Association has to say about the budget. Read the story in today’s Courant. I do wish the reporter had made more of an effort to tell us who’s right, however, because the he said-she said thing is stupid in a case like this. One side is correct and the other is lying.

I’m betting that the town manager is telling the truth because he has more to lose.

The best reason to vote yes on the referendum is to endorse the town over these fake advocates for taxpayers, who are pushing for ever more cuts even after they got a massive reduction in needed education spending.

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44 Comments

Filed under budget, News, referendum, town council, West Hartford Taxpayers Assocation

44 responses to “Taxpayer group lies

  1. Joe Visconti

    Well Well Well
    The Hartford Fishwrap article today reports the lies, and Barbara Carpenter who takes over for Ms. Daly as the head of the Education Cartel (Teachers Union rep) this month shows her teeth after going AWOL on voting on the budget. So much column we give to Babs ( revolving doors R US).

    Hey fellow residents, think the next 5 years of tax increase’s have been figured into the projected mill rate on top of the phase in? If so what are the tax increase for next year, and the next five years?

    You see there is something called lie’s by ommisison and if any group is doing that, it is the Town Council/Town Manger for not providing a 5 year plan on the budget with projected tax increase’s with a plus or minus 2% error like in polling.
    Letting the public know if they can afford to live in town for the next 5 years just might lead to what I have termed “Right Flight”, it’s where even those who may be able to afford to continue to stay in town but feel it is financially stupid, join those who can’t afford the Education Cartels Agenda and so the Exxodus begins.
    What this Old Boy’s network doesn’t want is for the public to know with any certainty what their taxes will be until it’s too late in the tax season for the public to act.
    The Leaders of this community need to continue to project and cast shadow’s of doubts regarding “Long Term Truth in Taxation” so that resident fear, resident confusion and resident uncertainty lead to “Resident Relocation Apathy”.

    West Hartford:
    Lie’s? yeah we got that.

  2. Gary Reger

    It’s very difficult to come to any sort of meaningful judgment about budget and tax issues on the basis of the discussion that occurs on this list. For me, someone could offer a real service to informed public debate by posting a link to the actual data — budgets over the past few years, mill rates, analysis of relationship between household income and property tax paid, annual net out/in-migration to West Hartford, real per-pupil spending rates per annum (adjusted for changes in school population), and so on. Maybe these data are readily available, maybe all the analyses have been done, but as a latecomer to this discussion I feel woefully underinformed.

  3. Joe Visconti

    Gary, Taxes are what feeds the machine

    You will continue to be underinformed if the Town leadership has it’s way. Most of the data has been compiled to go along the lines of Barry Feldman’s old Poll in o2 0r 03 on how the resients are willing to pay up to 6% a year tax increase to keep strong schools and such.
    Ask a different question and you might just get a different answer. Bottom line, there is no bottom line with this bunch. Floating pro education propaganda is one of the pair of aces they use to keep the machine fed, the other is the Bond rating.
    Peace

  4. EJ

    I was at the WHTA meeting and I was the one who asked Jim Francis if the mil rate would ever go to 29 as Slifka has been promising everyone he talks to. Jim smiled and agreed it would never happen. The 29 mil rate the mayor is promising assumes there would actually be no increase spending. Not likely.

    The town council promised to have a tax calculator on their web site so people could estimate their taxes. never happened. It was The WHTA that got the tax estimator out.

    The numbers used by the WHTA for Jim Francis’ office and the other numbers came straight from the towns’ printed budget. I was there looking at the numbers along with a dozen others.

    There is a credibility problem but it is not with the WHTA.

    What happened to you ’60s liberals not trusting the establishment

  5. Kevin Sullivan

    Here’s a thought: Let’s take the WHTA “information” and submit it to an independent financial examiner — like those who already review and routinely certify the exemplary accuracy of the town’s fiscal information. Then let’s see what’s fact and what’s political fiction. This is not a question of trust, although I do tend to trust those who are accountable politically or professionally, over those who are in no way accountable for thier propaganda. It’s a question of facts. We all have a right to informed, accurate and respectful debate — but not the blind politics of unrestrained complaint.

  6. Gary Reger

    To Joe Visconti: “Taxes are what feed the machine” — this is a slogan, not analysis. It impedes rather than assists thought. Everything depends on what the taxes are used for, how many people benefit, whether the amounts taken are distributed fairly over the population, and so on. We need to pay taxes to have a community.

    An independent assessment would indeed be a good thing. But are the data in fact available anywhere on the web?

  7. EJ

    The independant assessmant can be done the same way the WHTA looked at it. Go to town hall, pay your $10 for the budget and go luck at the numbers.
    These are the same numbers that the WHTA looked at and the same buget/numbers approved by the Town Council.

  8. Chuck Coursey

    Below please find the report from Town Manager Francis to the Town Council that was referenced in this morning’s Courant article.

    As with any correspondence between the Town Manager and the Council, this is a public document.

    To: Town Council
    From: James Francis
    Town Manager
    Subject: Review of Taxpayers Fact Sheet
    Date: June 5, 2007

    The following is a brief review of the statements labeled as “tax facts” by the Taxpayers Association. Many of the numbers and statistics are either incorrect or are from the proposed budget not the adopted budget. I believe these statements are misleading and are meant to make a point, rather than present or explain the budget. I will take the items in the order they are presented:

    Town Manager

    • There is no salary increase for the Town Manager in the budget. There is a 3% salary increase for the Assistant to the Town Manager position which is also included in this budget. Salaries have not increased by the 18.2% specified by the Association.
    • The fringe benefits are increasing by 9.5% (not 10.7%) and are not directly related to the positions in this account but represent proportionate town-wide allocations of pension, health, retiree health, workers compensation, and other insurances.
    • The offices non-personnel accounts, which include dues and travel, food expenses, and other office expenses, have a 0% increase. The amount is exactly the same as last year.
    • The increase in pension contribution is reflected in the above statement on fringe benefits and is not an additional increase as portrayed by the Taxpayers Association.
    • The phrase “he wants to pad his office” is not a fact. The total budget for this office is 0.75% less than the FY06 actual expenditure and 4.84% over the FY07 estimated expenditure. Adjustments were made to this budget to make it a more accurate reflection of the actual cost of the office.

    Corporation Counsel

    • The salary increase is for 3.5 employees (not 2.5) and is 1.7% (not 9.3%).
    • The adopted fringe benefit increase totaled $46,253 or 38.8% (not 40.1%) and is primarily due to an increase in self-insurance expenditures as the Town incurred legal costs of $40,715 to defend itself against a resident’s claim.
    • There is no change from the prior year in the professional services budget of $88,000.
    • There is no change from the prior year in the contractual services budget of $42,500.

    Financial Services

    • Payroll increases 5.6% (not 9%) in the adopted budget. This includes an increase of 3.9% in regular pay due to contractual COLA and anticipated merit increases. An additional part-time employee in property tax collections ($22,770) is included in the budget, which is partially offset by reduced overtime (-$5,000) and lower banking services charges (-$10,000).
    • In total, the adopted Financial Services budget increased 3.8% with wages & salaries increasing 5.6%, operating expenses decreasing 1.2% and fringe benefits increasing 4.7%. Fluctuations within programs (i.e. payroll, accounts payable, purchasing) relate to an annual review of the department’s work-plan for the upcoming year and where we expect resources to be spent.

    Human & Leisure Services

    • The adopted budget increased 10.1% (not 12.8%) overall.
    • The adopted professional services budget for this department in fiscal year 2007 was $10,000. The adopted figure for this account is $12,000, an increase of 20.0% (not 50%).
    • There is an accumulated deficit, since 1992 or 15 years, of approximately $1.9 million, not a one-year operational deficit. Of this amount, $1.1 million is for debt service on the Veterans Memorial Skating Rink and the balance of $0.8 million represents operational costs.
    • Adopted wages & salaries are up 3.0% for anticipated contractual increases. The overall wage account is 18.5% higher than the prior year (not 28.9%), due to the allocation to the General Fund of the customer service personnel at the main lobby desk, a portion of the Director of Human & Leisure Services position, and a portion of the Executive Assistant position to reflect their actual responsibilities.
    • The adopted fringe benefit increase is 18.9% (not 27.3%). Increases are not directly related to the positions in this account but represent proportionate town-wide allocations of pension, health, retiree health, workers compensation, and other insurances and the allocation of one self-insured general liability claim to the office.

    Miniature Golf Course
    • This capital project was approved as part of the prior year budget (April 2006) not this fiscal year. Preliminary work is being done on design and to locate a site and will be brought to the Council for review and approval before any work is authorized.

    Property Taxes

    • The Taxpayers Association states that property taxes are increasing 6.6% in 1st year of revaluation phase-in. This is correct for 99% of the property owners. The other 1% will be less than 6.6%.

    • They go on, however, to say that there will be tax increases of between 10%-125% for years 2 through 5. This is incorrect. The tax increases in each subsequent year will be based on the change in the grand list, the revenue projections for each of those years, the expenditures authorized in each year, and the amount of change in each person’s property valuation yet to be phased in. Each property will be different. Some of very little left to be phased in and may in fact have tax decreases in the subsequent years. Some still have substantial amounts to be phased in and will have significant increases.

    Board of Education Budget

    I am not as familiar with all of the items mentioned in the Taxpayers Association brochure, but will speak to the ones I know.

    Healthcare

    • The Taxpayers say the average co-payments are $3.00. I do not know where this comes from but the co-pays for teachers, administrators, professionals, and nurses are: office visit -$20; emergency room – $75; Inpatient hospital – $75; Prescription drug – $5 for generic, $20 for brand formulary, and $35 for brand non-formulary.

    Various Salary Accounts

    • These accounts represent multiple year contract settlement adjustments.

    Other Referenced Accounts

    • The Taxpayers Association refers to proposed numbers that were in most cases already reduced by the Board of Education or question accounts that have no changes but simply reflect actual experiences.

    If you have any questions regarding the above, please feel free to contact me.

  9. Joe Visconti

    Gary
    We pay taxes to support that which we as a community have decided not to do ourselves; such as not having a Volunteer Fire Department which other towns have chosen to keep. We already are losing some services and have limited leaf pickup.

    Chuck
    Ask and you shall receive, lets see more corrspondence between the Town Manager and Council members posted online from now on.

    Kevin
    “Blind Politic’s”, “Political Fiction”…. Gary, oh Gary, here’s some more Slogan’s for ya , these from kevin.

  10. Osemasterofdoom

    Is it possible that the WHTA numbers are from the proposed budget, not the final one that we are putting to a vote on Tuesday?

    Mr. Coursey — I appreciate your willingness to address the blog and clarify some information. However, I am a little concerned about some of the fringe benefit increases present in the budget, specifically:

    “The fringe benefits are increasing by 9.5% (not 10.7%) and are not directly related to the positions in this account but represent proportionate town-wide allocations of pension, health, retiree health, workers compensation, and other insurances.”

    Are these increases mandated by a contract reached through binding arbitration?

  11. Lori

    Thanks for posting the memorandum from Mr. Francis. That’s quite helpful.

  12. Agreed, it is helpful. It shows that no matter how you look at it, increases are bountiful regardless of the percentage.

    However, taxes will remain high and will continue to climb until the residents of this town have the appetite to do something about it.

    The people sitting in office are quite comfortable with things as they are. Particularly, when the resistance comes from small pockets of Republicans (they simply deem malcontents).

    I’m not a member of the WHTA either, but if the politicians don’t represent our interests, and this blog claims that the WHTA doesn’t either…. then where does that leave us?

  13. Jackson

    I think the politicians try. They just caved in to the WHTA. So I will hold my nose and vote for a flawed, inadequate budget.

  14. Joe Visconti

    Jackson
    So it’s the “hold your nose and Vote Yes” soundbite again.

    The Town Council caved in to the WHTA? What are you talking about? The Town Council caved in to the numerous emails and angry phone calls from residents and rightfully so.
    Lets stop subsidizing the arrogant Teachers Union Agenda where the buck never stops and the $5 copays are a leftover relic from the 80’s.

    Better Soundbite Below:

    “Hold your hand on your assets and Vote NO”
    Copyright 2007 Joseph Visconti-All rights reserved

  15. WH Alum

    Joe – $5.00 copays? Did you even read that memo? Please don’t chase our wonderful teachers away. There are plenty of towns around us that pay more than WH.

  16. Joe Visconti

    did I say 5 dollars? sorry I meant 20? I cant’ spell or read anymore, get this man a tutour!!!!!

  17. WH Alum

    Maybe you should try visiting a WHPS classroom and see the preparation, dedication, & creativity our kids’ teachers put into their profession every day. You might learn how to read and spell while you’re there.

  18. Peter G.

    I read the Courant article and the letter posted above. Now I’d like to hear from the WHTA.

    Are the figures in your flier from the adopted budget that is being voted on our not?

    So far what I have heard are comments like “the town council are liars” and “people are really concernd.” But I have not heard the magic words: the numbers we put into the flier are from the adopted budget and are accurate.

    Seems straightforward enough.

  19. EJ

    Don’t know about the reading, todays paper indicated CT is dropping in reading ability. Scratch one up for the union.

  20. EJ

    The numbers used were from the proposed budget, the town council provided no other numbers, as far as I now, after any changes. The only new number provided was the change in estimated state funds expected.

    Most of the cuts appeared to be directed at the BOE and not the town, so in the end I don’t think you will see any big changes on the town side.

    As I understand, a teacher provided the 3% co-pay information on insurance. Could have been to set up theWHTA. Town did not provide the number. The town took its’ time responding to requests for info and was not overy helpful.

    The most open the town has been was when Jim Francis came to the WHTA meeting 2 weeks ago. He seemed to be very open with his answers and very helpful. Other than that episode cooperation was not easy to find

  21. EJ

    Yesterday the town sent out a letter givingan estimate of this years taxes. All well and good, but it does not show what will happen projected over the next 5 yrs.

    If you would like to see your projected taxes under 3 different possible scenarios check out the link to the WHTA.Org web site.

    This may prove tobe an eye opener as to what to expect

  22. T.W. Carroll

    Let me state at the outset that residents like me who are happy to pay our fair share of taxes have no respect for any entity, public or private, that purposefully distorts the facts for political gain. So if the West Hartford Taxpayers Association has lied to us, shame on them.

    But one other potential source of misinformation that concerns me is what appears to be the failure of the School Board and Town Council to fully embrace the concept of open and above-board government by failing to make their respective budgets readily available to all who have an interest in reviewing this information

    For example, is it true that I have to pay $ 10.00 to receive a full and unabridged copy of this year’s budget? If so, why is that necessary in this day and age, when such information is so easily distilled into a PDF file and uploaded to the Town’s web site? Or is there information contained within this document that the School Board or Town Council would prefer not to be readily available to the taxpayers of this Town, leading to what I would describe as an “indirect” distortion of the facts?

  23. Joe Visconti

    By the way that Town mailed letter that we got yesterday may have cost us way over $20,000.00( cost of a referendum), (probably around $50,000). Hope that mailing helped everyone.

    What you won’t see in the mail is next years tax figure for your home with a phase in over a new budget year’s tax increase. Maybe the Town will be able to phase in next years increase’s too, thereby deferring cost’s for the next batch of ya’ha’s that want to buy into this town. Think the Real Estate Agents will be able to deliver the convoluted projected tax’s for potential clients? Not!

  24. Hmmm.. interesting that the Courant would print accusations from the mayor, et al., that the WHTA is misinforming the public, but would NOT PRINT that the Mayor is spreading misinformation by stating that the mill rate will drop to 29.17 after the phase in of revaluation… especially when Jim Francis himself said that a 29.17 mill rate is not at all likely. I would have thought that would have been news to the Courant… but obviously not. So who is misinforming the public here? Or is the 29.17 just considered another empty promise by our elected officials ??

    Why didn’t the Courant mention that the Town Managers office overspent it’s Payroll budget line item by $60,000 last year ? As well as explain why?

    Why didn’t the Courant mention that the Town Manager department overspent it’s entire budget from last year by almost $45,000? and padded it’s department with $8,000 for contractual services it never used? Has anyone ever asked why a raises for the 2 positions in that office were given despite the fact that there was no money in the budget to give it? Where exactly did the money come from to cover it? What projects or other line items got cut, in another department perhaps,to make up for the shortfall here? Did the Courant print that?? Not on your life.

    Frankly WHTA has heard plenty about monies being moved from account to account, and accounts being padded at the taxpayers expense. That’s not good management, and quite frankly the business professionals, accountants and financial people in our organization were appalled when they looked into this budget and the way these accounts are managed. We are tired of poor management that has created the 1.9 million deficit in Leisure Services, and we are tired of the taxpayers being taken for granted.

    Call us anything you want, but citizens are looking into what we are spending and making the Town administration answer to these items that look questionable in both the municipal budget and the BOE budget. It’s called open government. You ought to welcome it instead of scorning it. I am really glad to see that the BOE is taking a good hard look at it’s expenses and is now talking about streamlining and garnering savings on consolidation. It’s about time. Would those discussions have happened if it weren’t for the WHTA? I seriously doubt it. Would they even have asked the unions to consider renegotiating to help the town? I very seriously doubt it.

    One thing that I have to say I was thrilled to hear the “yes” people confirm what WHTA was saying about waste in government at the BOE hearings.. We were all saying the same thing, and I for one am glad that the BOE apparently was listening. There were some great ideas that came from everyone.. and that is the dialogue we ought to have been having all along. I also appreciated the the board members who had the grace to be so accepting of ALL opinions. They truly demonstrated that they wanted to listen to opposing views and actually got some new ideas out of the process. That is what this is all about. Not the ugly finger pointing and accusatory tone coming from the mayor’s office and the Courant.

    The Courant and Dan Jones are incredibly biased toward this town’s administration, as usual, and despite the fact that we spoke to him for an hour on the phone stating our position on the accusations, very little of what we said made it into the article. But we knew that would happen.

    Last minute accusations about “lying , manipulation, and misinformation” from some Town leaders before an election has also sadly become part of the voting process in this town. They only need the Courant to be their mouthpiece and hey… they don’t even have to buy an ad.

  25. Joe Visconti

    T.W. Carroll

    Actually $10 is not a bad deal for the budget and education books. The data gets slammed together like the coming together of a great symphony finale. Cymbals crash etc. The real problem would be when you ask relevant questions during heated referendum spin cycle (Maytag repairmen the Board of Ed members aint), there just isn’t enough bodies on the same page or time to answer the thousand ‘s of inquiring resident requests for data clarifications. The “Mandate Monster”lurks amongst the Common Cost Villagers. I have a copy of the 05-06 budget I studied when running for council just to brush up on relevant information, it’s yours if you want to spend the summer in deep Tax Trauma.
    The devils in the details and God Save the Queen but there aint nobody gonna save us from us!

  26. WH Alum

    “the business professionals, accountants and financial people in our organization were appalled”

    And how do your “professional” salaries compare with those working everyday to serve our town? I’m not talking about the officials, I’m talking about the paid town staff and the teachers. We can see what they make, how about a fair comparison here? I know secretaries without a degree at all in the private sector who make more than than PhD teachers at the top of the scale. And honestly, I don’t think we have too many of those in town anyway.

  27. Pete

    Our town has a AAA bond rating, which means the best accountants and financial experts in the land have studied its book and found that West Hartford’s budget is top notch. It may be too high. It may be too low. But it’s not done poorly.

  28. Joe Visconti

    Dump the PHD mandate, nobody needs a PHD to teach kindergarten class then outsource the shrinks, privatize the Guidance Counselors and cut the legs off of the administration bureaucracy if the Cartel won’t give back concessions.

    Do what any business would do if it had real stockholders, not the Bleeding Heart, Union Brainwashed, 28 kids to a class is too many, Duplicity Addicted, Educational Cartel controlled Zombie Yes Voters this Company called West Hartford has as a Majority.

  29. Joe Visconti

    Oh Pete, you have never heard of recodification and reallocation gimmicks used by Administration’s? Legal is as legal does but 3 Card Monty ain’t got nothin over this game. Keep sleeping bud.

  30. Nothing personal, Joe, but it does strike me that Wall Street’s AAA ranking for our town means more than your concern over minor budget shuffling by the administration. Doesn’t every town do that sort of thing?

  31. Art Halloran

    There once was a man named Joe

    To everything his answer was no.

    While he thinks he’s cool

    We all think he’s a fool

    He belongs with Larry, Curley, and Moe.

  32. Joe Visconti

    There once was a boy they called Art
    Who thought that his ryhmes were so smart
    But the Man they called Joe
    Was so far in the know
    That he had to help Art find his heart

    For all Art could answer was Yes
    And spend more to solve all his mess
    For Art never learned
    That you get what you earn
    Unless your a Democrat’s Guest

    The Moral for Art yet to learn
    Is if Yes has the money to burn
    Then they should give it Joe
    Who can only say No
    And teach others the lesson they’ve learned

  33. WH Alum.. yes poor teachers in CT and West Hartford.. boo hoo. I’d say they make a pretty decent “professional salary” – maybe the “paras” get screwed over because the top administrators get so much more in salary and benefits.. and that’s not the WHTA’s fault pal.

    From current CT State DOE web site :
    Teach in Connecticut You can’t beat the combination!
    High Teacher Salaries (#1 in U.S. in 2000; projected average M.A.+30: $66,140)
    —————-
    http://www.nea.org/neatodayextra/salaries.html
    The U.S. average public school teacher salary for 2004-05 (the most recent survey) was $47,674.

    State average public school teacher salaries ranged from those in

    District of Columbia ($58,456),
    California ($57,876), and
    Connecticut ($57,737) at the high end
    to
    South Dakota ($34,040),
    Mississippi ($36,590), and
    North Dakota ($36,695) at the low end.
    ———————
    Teachers are very well compensated here .. and I would also say we have way more clerical staff than we need here, and with technology the way it is, we certainly could ax a few of those office people. How about we have some of those “curriculum” people and “specialists” actually teach a few classes? Heavens maybe they could even roll up their sleeves and keep programs like Quest fully staffed.

    and gee whiz if you look on the job listings online West Hartford has plenty of job openings still. One wouldn’t imagine we were trying to cut expenses, by looking at those listings.

    Guys c’mon – we have 7 students for each employee in the schools – that is a better ratio than most private college campuses enjoy.

  34. Rick Liftig

    Some factoids that I feel everyone should be aware of:

    Connecticut teachers are >required

  35. Rick Liftig

    Darn – something weird happened there. Again.
    ——————————————————–
    Here are some factoids that you all should be aware of:

    Connecticut teachers are required to have a masters degree for certification. Connecticut teachers are some of the best educated in the US. This is not the case in the states that Judy has referenced.

    Many of Connecticut’s teachers are baby boomers who have been teaching for 20+ tears. This puts them at the top of their payscale.

    Teachers who have entered via “fast track” (from other fields) often have advanced degrees and therefore command a higher starting salary.

    In my opinion, the fiscal problem does not stem form the classroom. I think it is a product of the numerous state and federal mandates that each school system is required to meet. Each mandate creates the need for administrative personnel to oversee the program, make sure that the paperwork is in order and be responsible in the case of an audit.

    Take the case of special education (which I have nothing against). A special ed child can require $50,000 and up in educational costs. Many require a full time para to escort them between classes and personal transportation. West Hartford has a very good special ed program which attracts new residents in need.

    I would invite you all to ask any teacher about how their educational mission has been cut back and their role of a social worker has been increased. I am aghast at the number of parents that not only desire the school to take care of the ‘dirty work’ (raising their child) but demand it!

    Also, the public schools do not have the luxury of choosing their students or even who to kick out (the state is now micromanaging that too)

    The educational mandates were supposed to spur growth in the state, but it appears that they also have an opposite effect. As our state and federal government pile on paperwork an attempt to micromanage our lives, initiative and industry are stifled.

    Anyone for the return of the part-time government and sunset laws?

  36. Fred Garvin

    So, how about explaining your lies WHTA folks?

    Any reason you didn’t check out your numbers? Why can’t we simply offer our view of the truth? Why the fabrications? Why the lies?

    And then I love the way Judy lashes out at the Courant and its reporter. Maybe the reporter found your positions and comments to be dishonest. A responsible news organization doesn’t repeat one side’s lies to achieve balance.

    Best defense is a good offense, right Judy? Divert attention from your lies by attacking that good old bogeyman for you right wing nuts, the newsmedia. (What else can we expect from someone who links to the John Birch Society from her blog?)

    Your lies say more about you people than anything else you can spew. You people are obviously immoral.

    And before ignorant Joe chimes in, let me let you taxpayer types know that I am employed in the private sector, as is my wife. I do not feed at all at the public trough. So don’t bother hurling more red herrings you morally bankrupt turds.

    Fred

  37. Joe Visconti

    Fred

    “Morally bankrupt turds”, nice mouth.

    Hey Judy our lies must be really getting under Fred’s reptilian skin. Where did you learn to talk like that bud, from your mother?, I bet not, from your teachers? Most likeley not. Your just upset at ignorant Joe and lying Judy for making you as irrelevant as your opinions; And please don’t drag your wife to your defense, she can post her own opinions where she has a better chance of not getting defamed by you.

  38. Peter G.

    I’m starting to think that even if I were not already so inclined, I’d be against the nay-sayers after reading these comments. The gossip, innuendo and character assassination posted here by Joe Visconti and Judy Aron seems to be for the purpose of stifling rather than promoting discussion of the real issues, as well as deflecting legitimate criticisms of the WHTA’s misstatements.

    Apparently it’s not possible for them to win an argument by reliance on facts, so trashing other people is the order of the day.

  39. Joe Visconti

    No Peter G, it’s the other way around read Mr Garvin’s nice language and if you have never done anything for Democracy except vote, then you wouldn’t have a clue as to how much time Judy, The Council, School Board Members, Candidates and Activists invest to promote debate.
    When it gets down to elections and referendums it’s the Authority’s that usually cry foul and shout Liars, just like our old issue Blue Back where then Lt Governor Sullivan called me a liar during one of his dog and pony shows at Town Hall. It’s desperation and as far as believing anything you read from the Hartford Fishwrap, ask your commrades there why they didnt let you know that our then Mayor, Jonathan Harris worked for Kroll Mcnamara who represented Healthtrax( Blue Back Tennant) and JDA Development ( Blue Backs Partner) during the Blue Back process, or better yet ask Kevin if he knew where Jonathan worked. Conflicts and lies by ommision were deemed not newsworthy as we watched the public swallow the Done Deal. You may like to hear the lies when they suit you but as far as the Fishwrap being bonafide, they are nothing more than the propoganda arm of the Democratic Party here in Town.
    Suggestion:
    If the WHTA is lying, sue them, if you ain’t got the chutzpah to put your money where your opinions are, then swallow hard and Vote No on June 12 against the budget and for Fiscal Responsibility

  40. EJ

    Have to agree with Joe V., it’s guys like Fred who are doing the name calling.

    Also looking at a previous post on the pawn shop (I think that was the one) WHDAD seems to feel the way the Advocate reports to be agenda driven, yet the Courant prints unbiased reportage (perhaps reportgarbage). Intersesting!

    I was taught many years ago to read/listen between the lines when listening to the news. It wouldn’t hurt for the people commenting here to do the same, and not accept these writings as gospel.

    These last couple of years have shown many bastions of the news media to knowingly print outright lies. That liberal gospel the NY Times to be one of those outlets.

  41. Fred Garvin

    So Joe, is the WHTA full of liars or morons. Let’s hear you explain the “misrepresentations.”

    You still haven’t addressed the issue. Is that because you can’t?

    Fred

  42. Joe Visconti

    Fred

    Please give Theresa McGrath a call for the data you seek, she spent much time with the Hartford Fishwrap reporter who spun the story as well as Jim Francis. I believe Judy is way too insulted by your foolish and stupid comments to be of asistance to you.
    As for me answering your questions I am not a member nor participate with the Taxpayers Group but I would suggest after speaking with Theresa or while speaking to her you get Dan Jones on the phone so you can then place blame where it belongs with the Fishwrap.
    Will you follow up? No you won’t, you want someone to tell you why someone else is lying when you were told they lied by liars.
    Good Luck!

  43. turtle

    So don’t bother hurling more red herrings you morally bankrupt turds.

    hahahahaha

    Wow, Judy, how does it feel to be disgraced in the venerable Hartford Courant?! I’d be crying into my Sam Adams.

  44. Hi

    Very interesting information! Thanks!

    Bye

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